(00:00:35) Childhood in Kottarakara and moving to Rishi Valley Rachel studied till Class 7 in Malayalam medium school in Kottarakkara. She qualified for a scholarship for entry into public residential schools in 1969. While being admitted into Rishi Valley School, there was concern by the school principal about her coping with English-medium classes, was made to repeat some classes. Rachel talks about her own self-confidence owing to her training by her father using books to learn English.

(00:08:00) Experience in Rishi Valley The year she joined, there was a lot of excitement of witnessing the first man on the moon. She speaks about her classmate Bob Balaram who would go on to become a NASA scientist. Early academic interests. She speaks on the habit of reading and being inspired by biographies. She describes the life and non-academic activities at Rishi Valley – sports, music, dance. Memories of boys playing cricket on Sunday, sitting under the neem tree. The daily 5 minutes of silence at sunset left an impression on her.

(00:17:29) Choosing what to do after school Early goal of becoming a doctor and helping the poor. She talks of her deep dislike for history and debates with history teacher. Memories of science club and being influenced to apply for NCERT's science talent (NST) exam. Doing a project on electrochemical series for the exam. Anxiety over preparing for the exam, father's support, and eventually qualifying. [Archivist's note: 22:30 to 26:43 - Connection issues] Personal and technical reasons for opting for Women's College in Trivandrum over Physics at IIT Delhi and BITS Pilani.

(00:32:29) UG and PG experience and summer schools She describes the biology training she received in NST's Annual summer schools at different institutes. The impact these summer schools left on her, how it was different from usual classrooms. Memory of getting to ask Prof Maheshwari a doubt and being encouraged by the response. Reflections on why these summer schools were so effective – the students were the cream of the country. The college not being particularly exciting to her, her desire to leave Women's college after BSc but being advised to stay back.

(00:38:13) After Masters She wrote to Prof Mercy Jacob at BHU and was invited to join. She describes the support from father & mother. She joined Prof. Tikaram Sharma and started work on sister chromatid exchange, a field that was completely new to her.

(00:41:57) Work culture at BHU lab Memories of the first six months, the freedom she received from her guide to use all her time to read and learn techniques. Teatime discussions between researchers and four PIs of the cytogenetics unit. Facing many failures in experiments and briefly thinking about quitting, before a pep-talk by Pradeep Sinha made her decide to stay back.

(00:44:49) Nature of scientific work She describes the concept of sister chromatid exchange (SCE). There was much intrigue around this phenomenon and its mechanism. The difficulty of the cells not growing in the tissue culture during attempts to observe SCEs. About how she went about her attempts to localise SCEs precisely on chromosomes. She describes the technique she standardised called harlequin banding. She describes the system she worked on, muntjac chromosomes. Submitting in 1988 and receiving degree in 1989. [Archivist's note: 52:13 to 57:09 - Connection issues]

(00:57:37) Early years in CCMB Getting into CCMB in 1986 after her guide left BHU for sabbatical and her fellowship ran out. Completing thesis work over summer breaks. She joined as scientist-B, recruited by PMB for Lalji's group (Lalji would join later). Lalji was once a member of the same lab in BHU, but Rachel had only met him once. She was part of the team setting up the lab – she described what this involved. She recalls early experiments she did – one of these is actually her latest paper.

(01:01:40) Research into sex chromosomes She talks about the first study started in CCMB which finally got published in 2022 "Single-cell variations in the expression of codominant alleles A and B on RBC of AB blood group individuals". She describes why this study was particularly satisfying to her – how it has to do with classical concepts in biology. How her work challenged the dogma that classical codominant alleles and autosomal homologs are functionally similar. She recalls going for a conference in Cold Spring Harbor and interaction with Amar Klar. She summarises Klar's discovery of a yeast mating type switching mechanism. At the conference, Klar seemed impressed by Rachel's work.

(01:08:07) CCMB's early years and evolution While acknowledging that the founders were visionaries, Rachel also notes problems with their ideas of how the institute would be structured. Lalji was brought from Edinburgh to develop the ideas, and Rachel was one of those hired to be part of his team. She describes the negatives of the group leader-junior scientist model – lack of independence for junior scientists. She briefly mentions that many of them fought their way to get some independence. CSIR's removal of Scientist-B recruitment, after realising the problems of this model. Despite all this, she describes how she was at the right place (Lalji's lab) at right time (around this time in 1990, the discovery of sex-determining gene was announced). [Interlude 1:12:41-1:13:15 clarification about Drosophila X-chromosomes] .

(01:13:25) Working under Lalji The difference between sex determination in mammals (homogametic female) vs snakes/birds (homogametic male). She notes that her memory on some details might be faulty. She describes how she was able to use Lalji's heterochromatic probes for her work to find that Y-heterochromatin derived RNAs regulate coding genes on autosomes. She explains why this is significant, and how this challenges, existing ideas of Y as a genetically isolated chromosome. It was published in 2007 as 'Novel noncoding RNA from human Y distal heterochromatic block (Yq12) generates testis-specific chimeric CDC2L2' in Genome Research. This was breakthrough work and it received emphatic validation from MRS Rao.

(01:19:52) Impacts of Y chromosome research She never cared about doing "risky" science and she explains why. She acknowledges the difficulties in publishing such results, especially when it was coming from India. She elaborates on the stereotypical comments that come after quality work emerges from Indian scientists. She shares thoughts on how she was fortunate to publish in the journal Genome Research, and how it may have worked in her favour that the editor's spouse was an expert in the area. An instance when this novel research came up in Parliament to show that India was active in human genome research. She said that there is persisting interest in this topic. She goes on to study heterochromatin in mice and found similar results in mouse Y-chromosome, but using another mechanism ('Y chromosomal noncoding RNAs regulate autosomal gene expression via piRNAs in mouse testis'). She was called for many conferences because of this work – her use of genomics and proteomics generated a lot of interest.

(01:29:28) Thoughts about sex chromosomes and future work There is more to mammalian Y than being male-determining chromosome, but it definitely has the sex determination region. Recent development where she and an international group of scientists have put up a letter of interest for a Human Frontier Science Programme project. Her belief that now that interest in this field is established, the work will continue. She describes some studies that further establish that Y-chromosome has more functions. For example, a study showing Y-deleted animals show stress-related behaviour. Her hopefulness for the planned future work.

(01:37:49) Post-retirement life The case of Osmania University (her current affiliation) not being recognised for the HFSP grant application, and the possibility of joining there as adjunct professor discussed by the University. She still has some papers left to publish – one is about the two strands of DNA and the distinct functions they disseminate to the two daughter cells during division.

(01:39:44) Her work ethic and challenging ideas of 'productivity' She comments on having no long-term collaborators. Swimming against the current and the cost of doing that. Her ideas about publishing less frequently, but focusing on publishing 'full stories' and high impact. She brings up the example of two of her papers that took around 20 years to publish. Working on heterochromatin and non-coding RNAs at a time when it was not very mainstream. She is very fulfilled after making multiple fundamental discoveries.

(01:45:16) Technology advances is not enough She describes nanopore sequencers like MinION device and how they can help genomic research. She comments that while technology and technical knowhow has advanced, biological questions are still lagging. DNA is the easy part, but what does it mean? – that is what her work focused on. She describes Lakhotia and others' concern about biotechnology emerging as a course. [01:49:48 Aside: One question that remains is why do species-specific sequences of noncoding RNA evolve? It might be related to reproduction, a species-specific event.]

(01:51:53) Altruistic activities She narrates the success story of an underprivileged boy who she supports. She describes how she interacts with children, many orphans, and generally spends time with them. She also talks about helping build a house for a daily wage worker at CCMB.

(00:00:50) Childhood Born in Calicut. Childhood was spent in mother's home with grandparents and large family. Family structure. Brother's angry letter about marrying a man who was married before. Parents were in Podanur so she was sent to Calicut for education. Origin of 'AP' initials. 2nd to 10th grade in Jesuit school in Calicut. Excelled in school. Unique qualities of school – used to be co-ed, students made to clean school themselves. Memories as school leader. More recent visit to school with daughters, meeting old teachers. Memories as girl guide – campfire, tying knots, navigation. Natural environment of school.

(00:08:53) First time meeting scientists First exposure to a scientific team was an aunt in National Institute of Nutrition (NIN) Coonoor who stayed at home with her team while on an official visit. Her liking for performing arts or civil services. Being late to school and being taken by scientist Parvathy. Seeing an aunt as a mother-figure and feeling very upset when she left after marriage (and how this incident made her build personal boundaries).

(00:13:56) Vacations in Podanur On resenting parents for leaving her at Calicut. Actual reason was absence of English medium school in Podanur. [Interlude: Born in 1951 as one of five. Qualities of father who served in British Army. Calicut's seafood, popular site for palliative care.] Podanur was very different. Influences of Anglo Indian community there. Love for nature grew in Podanur. Memories of flowers in Podanur – "nandyarvattam" double petal white flower used as an eye drop. Thoughts on gardening as an activity and the lessons it teaches you.

(00:22:19) Early interests in school Role model was grandmother – the way she dressed, the respect she commanded. Memories of rushing after last school bell to sharpen slate chalk. Playful times in the church inside school. Literary meetings and acting in plays. Talking to a school friend, Lalitha Jasmine, after many years. Starting school at 4 years in 2nd standard. Writing 10th (SSC) exam before turning 14. Uncertainty about writing pre-degree exam due to age. [Interlude: On attachment to aunt. Grandfather's job in telecom and landing up in Calicut. A bit about mother's early life in Tamil Nadu, and her family.] [00:29:20-00:30:00 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(00:31:51) Experience with pre-degree exam About friendship with friend Lakshmi. About Lakshmi's achievements as actor. Krishnaja's childhood with lots of health problems, missing exams yet being proficient in studies. [Interlude: Studying and observing butterfly life cycles. Rose garden being maintained in school. Plans to live in a greener place, spending more time on cooking and gardening.] Paratyphoid coming in the way of exam and feeling crushed. The feeling that this incident was the starting point of a string of bad luck. Missing qualifying for medicine by 1 mark. Missing national scholarship in pre-degree at Malabar Christian College very narrowly. [Interlude: Philosophical thoughts on destiny, envy, marriage, friendship, money] Being bitten by a snake, and having an undiagnosed skin infection the following year. [00:32:00-00:33:32 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(00:47:05-00:48:13 Break for medication)

(00:48:14) Treating underprivileged with respect Hating the concept of color dress on Saturday because of children in orphanage who studied in same classroom. This sensitivity developed after weekends with aunt Dakshayani. How aunt made positive changes in the orphanage she was posted as superintendent. Thoughts on inequality and some people starting off at an advantage. Treating cleaning staff at BARC with respect.

(00:54:07) Undergraduate experience Taking grandmother to see principal of college for permission to not appear for exam. Being enamoured after visit to Calicut medical college. Not being able to relate to new batch with whom she had to study in her BSc Zoology. [Interlude: Learning to move away from things she loves (first aunt leaving, elder brother, trauma of treatment for suspected TB as a 13-year-old).] Achievements of her pre-degree and BSc batch (Abraham Thomas, Basant, Hema). [01:01:43 to 01:04:35 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(01:04:50) First taste of research in BSc study trip Study trip to Krusadai Islands in 2nd year BSc. Memories of sights and sounds and tastes. Topping and winning prize in zoology. [Interlude: Childhood memories of reading newspapers, cooking with grandmother] Wanted to be independent, earn and write civil service exams after BSc so did not apply for MSc immediately. [01:11:38 to 01:12:20 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(01:12:25) Telegraphist job as launch pad Criteria for selection. Telegraph training (morse code, teleprinter) classes in 1972. Thrilling parts of the job. Receiving a satisfactory salary. This was to be launch pad for evening classes for civil services. Thoughts on marriage and feeling back then that it was legalised rape. [Interlude: Being empowered by positive influences of women in family (scientist in Coonoor, Block Development Officer in Mysore) and being encouraged by dad, brothers & uncles.]

(01:23:19) Telegraph job Working very efficiently for a year with telegrams. Learning to work high pressure atmospheres, navigating hierarchy and working with men and women. Memories of people she worked with and influenced at the time. [01:24:48 - 01:29:40: Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(00:00:10) Turning point in life (into research) Financial independence since BSc. ICAR Junior Research Fellowship for Agricultural University newspaper cutting shown by brother. Visit to Coimbatore Agricultural University to find out more. Fisheries was only option.

(Aside: Family skepticism about telegraphist job and grandmother's visit to astrologer who makes a prediction about her research future.)

Preparing and appearing for the BSc fisheries exam – Nirmala College, Coimbatore. Fascination about Bombay duck fish and how it paid off. Nature of exam paper. Finding out that she had qualified. Being the only girl writing the exam and being asked by examiner if she was there for home science.

(00:11:58) The year-long hunt for a suitable institute for MSc Research Suku Uncle's [Archivist's note: PK Sukumaran] help in getting into fisheries institute in Bombay. [00:16:40-00:16:44 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(00:17:49) After joining fisheries institute Initial dislike for Mumbai. Support from friend Sushma Mehra. Uncertainty after guide moved to Vishakhapatnam. Convincing marine biologist MS Rege to become guide. Description of CIFE & Institute of Science campus. (Aside: Positive thoughts about Mumbai)

(00:26:32) Entering cytogenetics field Time spent in library and coming across a paper by Denton and Howell on fish chromosomes. About fish cytogenetics. Difference between freshwater and salt water fish. Being inspired by colleague MP Singh's fish hybrids and getting guide Rege to agree. 'Sacrificing' fish to perform experiments. [00:32:40-00:32:47 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

File 2

(00:00:04) Finally getting important results Warnings by Rege during research work. Eureka moment after many months of no results. Memorable trips to Aarey lake to get natural population of fish. Importance of her haemoglobin studies on hybrid fish. Indigenous studies on muscle and serum proteins using limited resources. Traveling to Udaipur to present paper in All India Cytology Genetics conference in 1975. Needing to be independent in research, without any guidance. [Aside: Notes on perfection from Suku uncle].

(00:10:46) After MSc Advice by uncle to do PhD but being fed up. Flashback to brief stay at YWCA hostel, Andheri. [00:13:33-00:15:30 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(00:15:45) Return to Kerala Family situation at the time. Trips to Delhi University to visit library and make plans for the future. Meeting Thelma BK and her guide SRV Rao. Reasons for change in mind about PhD. Hurdles while joining KEM Hospital, work on chromosome spread.

File 3

(00:00:02) Experience at KEM & previously PAU Impressions of Prof NB Kumta. Friendships at the time with endocrinologist Shampa, Shrikumari. Circumstances of joining KEM (after working at Ludhiana). Work on aquatic pollution in and around Bombay. Reason for wanting to leave Ludhiana. Interview with AK Gupta at PAU, Ludhiana to get Drosophila genetics job. Facing hostility & non-cooperation from a colleague at PAU. Stint at IARI with RP Sharma.

(00:06:52) Newborn screening programme at BARC Encounter with cytogeneticist AT Natarajan. Getting involved in the newborn screening programme at BARC in 1982. Standardising the procedure for this programme. Radiation & cancer incidence in Quilon due to Monazite. Visit to Monazite to set up photomicrography, etc.

(00:13:05) Various activities at BARC Her contributions and experiments in radiation cytogenetics to study chromosome aberrations and distinguish stages of cell cycle.

[00:20:51 - 00:50:05 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(00:00:58) Childhood, family background Mother was first-generation school-goer and father was first-generation college-goer. Caste/community was more interested in business than education. Mother's insistence on education for daughters. Born in Parasia, Chindwara district (now in Madhya Pradesh), but family moved to the city for the sake of education. She was stubborn about going to school very young. Joined a very small school at just over 2 years old. Studied there till Class 11.

(00:04:59) Choosing physics She speaks about needing to choose a career (PhyChemBio or PhyChemMath) in class 9 at just 13 years old. She was averse to medicine due to multiple reasons. Only two professions were acceptable – engineering or architect. Accepting parents' perception that engineering is not for girls. Fear of failure and bad drawing skills made her not want architecture. Taking PCM and being one of two in maths class. Young maths/physics teacher made an impression on her and influenced her to take up physics. Reflections on complementary choices taken by the two sisters. Hearing about IIT in Class 11 and entrance exam for 5-year-Msc programme. Fighting with parents to make them agree to IIT possibility. IIT as an aspirational institute in 1970s. Attending entrance coaching for one month in Bombay after 10th/11th.

(00:12:36) Bhola's entrance classes in Bombay Public transport as 13/14-year-old in Bombay. Odd situation and subtle messaging of being the only girl in the class. Anecdote about being belittled for not being familiar with log tables. She describes discriminatory behaviour by a teacher. She talks about the difference between 'old maths' and 'new maths' and how this affected her. JEE being just another exam. Getting offers from BITS Pilani and IIT Kanpur through board exam marks. Parents' resistance to going far away from Bombay. Her father received advice from a professor saying IIT will be too competitive, and that it was better to join a local college for undergraduate studies. Retrospective realisation that this might have been good advice. Benefits of doing UG at a second-rate institution to build confidence.

(00:19:04) Culture shock in Nagpur degree college Self-growth in 3 years of science college in Nagpur (1974-77). Teachers were unable to accept that people are choosing to study science instead of engineering/medicine. Being only one of two girls in college, both rank-holders. Having good physics teachers. Balancing inequality of gender by being the ones with better marks. Adjusting to having indiscipline and boys in class. What classrooms looked like back then – normalness of teachers and girls being harassed. Dealing with "eve-teasing" in their own way. Determined to leave Nagpur after BSc. Substandard quality of education and relying on self-study. Her memories of the Emergency period are not very clear.

(00:25:39) Coming to IIT Bombay This was after two-year MSc in Physics. Independence from home. Limited communication with family. Going home with unreserved tickets during long weekends. Limitation of not having honours in physics, but having an edge in maths knowledge. Feeling challenged (academically) for the first time. Women's hostel as a nurturing space and strong camaraderie. Situation with hostels in IIT Bombay at the time. Credit to peers and seniors, and not the institution itself. Non-interference of institution. High gender ratio in class.

(00:33:34) Hierarchy among BTech and MSc students Being in the same class as BTech students for one course and sensing discrimination from teachers and students. Being accused of copying in an exam. Segregation of science departments from engineering departments in the campus. PG students were looked at as those who were not good enough to go abroad. Enjoying physics during MSc. Pressure of exams one-after-the-other was like a whirlwind.

(00:39:45) Post-IIT process Everyone writing GRE/TOEFL to apply abroad. Deciding as a 20-year-old that she did not want to go abroad. Deciding to do a PhD elsewhere – TIFR, IISc and IIT Bombay were options. Interviewing process at IISc and not getting in. Sticking with IIT Bombay after all. (00:43:12) During PhD at IIT Bombay Shift that comes with PhD in terms of academic expectations and freedom. Year of coursework giving her free time to be more involved in political events. Student strike of Feb/Mar 1980. Being an observer during mess workers strike and hostel name strike during MSc. Forum Against Oppression of Women starting in 1980. Women's movement and left politics also was active at the time. Memories of Sandhya Gokhale. Impression made by liberated and politicised women at IIT. On women rebelling, breaking taboos, rules. On how the times were different back then.

(00:53:01) On the student's strike of 1980 Student suicide that took place during her first year. Getting involved in theatre groups. Hunger strike by a group of students belonging to various reserved groups. Their demand for inclusive treatment. Structure of student bodies and hostels. Becoming General Secretary of the Hostel and deciding on having two people in the role. Student body's decision to support the strike. General Body Meetings of the hostels and difficulty of reaching majority. Learning a lot from those processes of democracy. Nasty role played by anti-reservation students. Successful boycott of classes and dharna outside Director's Office. Resistance against carrying out hostel functions. Shutdown of the institute and directive to evacuate campus.

(01:02:34) Repercussions of students' strike Treatment of protesting students and lack of support from faculty. Legally challenging the declaration student's were forced to sign upon returning. Indira Jaisingh's arguments in the case. Notoriety of the physics department with respect to involvement in protest and consequences they had to face. A new and unsuitable workspace.

(01:07:16) Impressions of PhD programme at IIT Move from high energy physics to condensed matter. Anecdote about a colleague at the department who faced difficulty finding a guide. Reflections on research culture and impact on students. Starting a Physics Seminar and discouraging attitude by guides.

(01:14:24) Political context of 1984 Post-emergency optimism + major incidents of 1984 (women's movement, emergence of theatre groups, Bhopal gas tragedy, Bhiwandi riots of 1984, killing of Indira Gandhi). Personal exploration of politics. Impressions of guide, care and mentorship received. Being sent for summer school. Being disturbed by ugly experiences by other students.

(01:18:53) Summer school at Trieste Feeling sexualised for the first time in Europe. Experience of savarna women and the distinct kind of discrimination they face in India (gender vs body). Anecdote of inappropriate advances by a scientist at conference.

(01:22:26) Activities post PhD Working at Kishore Bharati and Hoshangabad Science Teaching Program (HSTP). Being involved in survey of health of women post Bhopal Gas Tragedy. Return to Bombay and the search for teaching jobs. Experience teaching at a junior college. Trieste as the last straw in research. Recollection of reading books on feminist critiques of science while at IIT. Utilising IIT alumni library membership.

[01:24:35 to 01:24:55 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(01:26:20) Teaching Returning from Trieste and having to look for a new job. Memories of applying to colleges. Reason for not wanting universities (to focus on teaching instead of research). Realising most job interviews at colleges were a sham. Joining K.J. Somaiya College.

(01:29:53) Experience at Somaiya System of employment at Somaiya and issues with it. Being 'terminated' in her 3rd year and choosing to legally challenge it. Fighting a 3-year-long court case and getting reappointed in 1993. Importance of seniority at colleges. Using this time to do work with health and education.

(01:36:11) After returning to Somaiya Facing harassment from college. Anecdote about a lab attendant's behavioural issues, assault and inadequate response by Principal. How she found space and respect as a physics lecturer at Somaiya after 10 years. On enjoying teaching various kinds of students.

(00:00:39) Childhood Parents work in defence. Limited association with south India despite being south Indian. Life as a child living among defence families, learning about loss and unity early. Memories of all siblings being delivered in the same hospital by the same midwife. School life in a convent. Moving to the south for her father's job.

(00:03:46) Earliest influences of science Creation of Kendriya Vidyalayas around India. Memories of biology teacher Subhadra Menon at Kendriya Vidyalaya. She benefited from the strong influence of her teachers.

(00:07:48) Ideas of what to do after school How the 'higher secondary' system worked. Going to Mysore to do BEd with a scholarship. Being trained to become school teachers.

(00:10:12) B.Ed. in Mysore and first job at a KV Joining KV-HVF as a primary school teacher. Memories of hostel life in Mysore - learning to adapt, mix with diverse peers, develop compassion. Being socially advantaged but from a lower economic background. She had a talent and received recognition for singing and other extracurricular activities.

(00:13:30) Experience in B.Ed. Opportunity to specialise in biological sciences and being trained by brilliant teachers. Listing teachers who made the subject exciting. Benefiting from dissections and how things have changed. Recollecting how she opted for Mysore over JIPMER for medicine. Regret over missing out joining medicine, but gradually developing a passion for science. Interest in writing.

(00:16:50) Stint at KV as teacher and moving on Life as a primary school teacher. Finding advertisement in paper from Kasturba Medical College, Manipal, for MSc in microbiology. Being attracted to the word 'paramedical' in the notice. Applying and being selected.

(00:19:23) Journey to Manipal (1972) Parents' tension on letting her move to Manipal. Arriving in the peak of monsoons in Mangalore. Financial difficulties the family had to navigate to pay the fees. Being alone in a Chennai-Mangalore train, and a friendly stranger in the compartment. Being utterly clueless in the station but receiving fortunate help from an old classmate near Mangalore. On her innocence as a young woman looking for a room in a hotel. Memories of hospitality of friend Purandhar Bhat and his family.

(00:27:23) Experience in Manipal and microbiology Excitement of being in a medical college and being in the same classrooms. Introduction to medical microbiology. Advantages of being a small batch. Being trained in subjects like tuberculosis, virology, culture sensitivity of pus, immunology etc. The art of self-learning. Excitement of studying about the human body and how it's affected by the environment. "Your shit and urine is my bread and butter." Being initiated into research and publishing as a Masters student. Listing some teachers she remembers. Advantages of scholarship she had won for the whole period. Importance of allowing students to work in the lab. Studying unusual infections in humans. Working with Aeromonas hydrophilas, a species she would come to build her expertise in much later.

(00:36:43) Starting off career in research and investigating a mystery disease outbreak Being offered a job as bacteriologist to the Govt of India, Delhi. Being convinced to continue with a PhD at KMC. Joining as lecturer in KMC. Mysterious disease outbreak in Malpe. Going to Malpe to homes of sick children to investigate. Serotyping and finding a link - enteropathogenic E.coli. The reputation of E. coli and how it was not recognised as a pathogen at the time. The impact of this finding and controlling the outbreak.

(00:43:24) Studying listeriosis and abortions Getting samples from women with 'bad obstetric history'. Hunt for Listeria. Doing cold-enrichment, isolating and studying the organism. How contamination of listeria happens. Her research in public health and being ranked ranked #11 and #13 respectively in India by Research.com in the field of microbiology. Publishing 10 papers in just over one year in KMC. Research on Q Fever and other mystery fevers.

(00:51:52) Move to JIPMER and return to Mangalore Joining JIPMER as senior resident. Prestige of the job. Registering for PhD. Starting specialisation in immunology and virology. Being affected by her guide's move to Calcutta. Getting married and returning to Mangalore. Joining KMC as ICMR-Senior Research Fellow. Studying genetics of Vibrio cholerae. Being the first Microbiology PhD from Mangalore University. Getting acquainted with organisms associated with fisheries. Looking back on moving from field to field. Husband's job at Fisheries College and his opting not to do research in medical college.

(00:59:55) Joining Fisheries College Seeing an advertisement for an Assistant Professor post. Joining husband's team for his PL-480 project. Doing PhD in the meanwhile and submitting thesis in 1984. Owing 400+ publications to ~40 PhD and ~35 Masters students who worked under her.

(01:01:47) Thoughts on family life Raising independent daughters with successful careers. Achievements of both daughters

(01:03:04) Doing fisheries research Fish as a perishable commodity. Important for nutrition value and food security value. Early days of fisheries focused on 'capture fisheries', and this changed to 'culture fisheries'. Research had to be related to methods needed to increase productivity. Need to ensure the health of fish, managing threats to fish health. Developing preventive measures, diagnostic measures for this. Their (Indrani + Iddya) research focused on shrimp culture and diagnostic measures for a viral disease. National Technology Awards received for technology they developed (she won it in 2014 for work done over 25 years). Early days of PCRs they developed. Research on Vibrio harveyi and harmful effects, developing a phage technology to kill them. Developing bioremediators to change the toxic chemicals affecting shrimp. Experience as Principal Investigator for collaborative research on vaccines for fish. Collaborating with Norway for this work, and how Norway vaccinates fishes. Improvements in vaccine delivery (from injection to feed-based to nanotags). Bacterial diseases affecting Indian fish. New viruses affecting shrimp reported by them. Developing a multi-pronged approach to manage shrimp health.

(01:13:39) Working on human diseases derived from fish Association with husband's EU project regarding fish parasites (trematodes) that can reach humans.

(01:15:26-01:17:14 ) Tea Break

(01:17:15) Notable public health related work – paralytic shellfish poisoning Work on Algal toxins. Reading in the newspaper in 1982 about a mysterious ailment and deaths in Kasargod. Investigations and sample collection in the village. Shellfish-linked paralysis, a never-been-reported-before phenomenon. Using clinical science to identify the illness. Putting the pieces together. Algal blooms being filtered via shellfish and the presence of a neurotoxin in such shellfish. Testing their theory in white mice. Figuring out how to detoxify these shellfish, using alkali. Recognition and grants received for this work. Similar instances of Ciguatera poisoning via red snapper fish in Mangalore and Cochin. Explanation of how these toxins reach red snappers. Why GI tagging is important for tracing where fish come from. 500 poisoned people were brought to Yenepoya hospital. Name, fame and collaborators that came from this work.

(01:26:24) Need for long-term surveillance programme and political pressures US-India project for 5 years to do research on this. When no issues cropped up in 5 years, India discontinued, but the next month there was an outbreak. 1990s outbreak in Kovalam, Kerala, and being called by the Chief Minister. Political repercussions and pressures of fisheries research and results. The couple's stand on issues and being part of several committees.

(01:29:37) Partnership with Iddya Karunasagar The common subject is an important link in their relationship. Helping each other during international collaborations. Role of arguments and being opinionated in their partnership.

(01:31:36) Choice to stay in India Opportunity to leave in 1982 when husband was offered a job in FDA, in the US. Perception of the US as a place lacking morals and protectiveness over their daughter keeping them in India. Feeling of patriotism. The couple's stints abroad in Germany, Latin America, South east Asia, Middle East, former Soviet countries. Getting the best from everywhere and bringing it back to India.

(01:35:13) Others who contributed to her career Mother-in-law's support with childcare. Long-term help at home and support received and given to her family.

(01:38:25) The Nitte chapter – an opportunity to build an institute Receiving a letter and a visitor while at Fisheries College. Being offered a position as a research director. Joining as a consultant working on Saturdays. Asking for a research institute to benefit all at the university – the birth of Nitte Centre for Science Education and Research (NUCSER), modelled on IISc and IISERs. Bringing with her a whole team. Recent achievements and activities of NUCSER. How NUCSER aligns with the New Education Policy, by making it a centre for inter and multidisciplinary research. Potential for interdisciplinary work at Nitte. Gratitude for the opportunity to build an institute.

(00:00:52) Childhood and early influences She was born in 1960 as the first child of her parents, and she grew up with aunts who were of similar age. She was sent to an unconventional school from nursery to Class 6. She describes "Indian School" founded by Shambu Nath Palit & Gita Palit, and features of their unique style of education. Memories of protective parents and being made to drink milk before school. Exhibitions at the school inspired her. She describes how the beautiful building of the school looked. Other programmes like annual day events, plays, etc. also made an impression on her. Ideas of starting a similar school today but realising the difficulties. Leaving the school after Class 6, and being encouraged by the founders.

(00:11:37) Next phase of schooling Her academic excellence allowed her to do well in entrance exams for other schools, however, her English-medium training set her back in some subjects. She describes the period of indecision between Nivedita School & Holy Child, and her insecurities at the time. Her shy nature dissipated at her new school, and she became talkative and popular. She recalled doing very well socially and academically.

(00:16:37) Early science education & interest Indian School did not have specific science subjects, but in Holy Child she recalls physics, chemistry, biology and mathematics subjects. She remembers her teachers, their teaching and encouragement. She describes that her reasons for preferring physics and maths over biology was that she had to study less for the former. Once in Class 9 she scored low in maths and the teacher said she was overconfident – that was a wake-up call for her. Her parents had full belief in her and rarely criticised her. She describes the legacy of her grandparents – her maternal grandfather Madhusudhan Roy was an academic and has a school named after him in Bangladesh, her paternal grandfather faced many challenges but had literary interests and places great emphasis on his children's academics. She did very well in school and was encouraged by many relatives. Her father briefly enrolled a young maths tuition teacher for her in Class 10 and she has fond memories of that. Her parents were insecure that maybe they weren't doing enough for their brilliant daughter, however she herself had no worries.

(00:24:38) Relationship with her parents She was very close to her father, she accompanied her father to the market, to several social and cultural meetings. She now realises how much her mother played a role in her bringing up, and maintaining relationships with distant family members. Her mother was in charge of all domestic responsibilities. Her maternal family was much more educated and progressive, compared to her paternal family who were refugees staying in Kharagpur. She describes how her parents met.

(00:30:14) Studying science during intermediate at BSc She decided to pursue physics. Her disinterest and lack of expectation when it came to boys and marriage. Presidency College was a place to aspire to at the time and she was confident of getting in. She talks about how her sentiments towards dissections caused her to leave biology and pick physics. The ambience and teaching at Presidency College. Her thoughts about practical classes, how they were conducted earlier, and how things were different in Presidency College. Pressure on girls to present themselves, their notes, their dressing well. She explains why she now feels it's good to study in co-ed schools from an early stage. She lists some of the teachers at Presidency that taught her various subjects, and recollects some classes. She talks about imposter syndrome but how it motivated her to put a greater effort. She talks about one integration class with Shyamal Sengupta (SSG). Her recollection of Amal Kumar Raychaudhuri's classes and his way of dressing, teaching. She elaborates on her trouble with electromagnetic theory and fears of failing. Her thoughts, philosophies and observations on failing.

(00:47:50) After BSc and Naxalite violence Marriage did not occupy her mind. She describes the changing conditions at home at the time. Going outside Kolkata was not something that was encouraged or that she thought of. Education at the time of the Naxal insurgency. Political issues caused a delay in final exams and graduation. She reminisced about how the Naxalite violence of the 1970s affected daily life and resulted in unfair detainment of students.

(00:55:10) Doing MSc at Calcutta University She joined Science College at Calcutta University for MSc. She was reluctant to get support from relatives who wanted to help her as she didn't want any special favours. She was encouraged to take radiophysics or electronics, but she was not interested in this. Instead, she chose MSc in pure physics. She had many friends there and enjoyed a lot with her "notorious gang of girls". During gap year there, she did courses in computer science – these were also ways to get away from home. Memory of a class on search engines and finding it boring at the time. She talks about her classes at Visiting Students' Orientation Programme (VSOP) & being taught quantum physics with Binayak Dutta-Roy. Saha Institute at the time was a matter of pride and she aspired to study there for physics.

(01:03:34) Her interest in Nuclear Physics & PhD She hated the subject in Presidency and in MSc as well. She felt it was peculiar and difficult, and vowed never to study it. The start of NET exams and attempting both UGC & CSIR NET without seriousness. She recollected the interview at Saha Institute which went very well. The downside of the geniuses at Saha was that they weren't very ambitious – this affected students. Being mentored by Manoranjan Saha to apply for Fulbright-Nehru fellowship, but deciding not to apply. Realising the importance of asking questions in class after MSc. Doing well in Post-Msc and finally understanding and liking Nuclear Physics.

[01:13:30 — 01:14:30 Break in interview]

(01:14:45) Saha Institute experience She describes the experience in her post MSc lab with Bijay Agrawal. Her awe for experiments but finding it challenging because most were "black boxes". Hearing about a prominent experimental scientist and thinking about doing a PhD with him. She had already done a post MSc project on positron annihilation under him. However, she was surprised that she did not get first authorship for this. Working in the cyclic accelerator division. The genesis of Inter University Accelerator Centre. Prasanto Sen was supposed to leave Saha Institute and he encouraged her to look for other options instead of following him to the new Nuclear Science Centre. Description of the 'Post MSc' pre-PhD course at Saha Institute. She approached Subimal Sen to join his lab but he asked her to wait. At the time she was not worried as all she cared about was doing good work. She talks about one teacher who developed in her a fondness for nuclear physics

(01:25:03) The pros and cons of doing PhD at Saha at the time She reflects on the great teachers of Saha, however the problem was their lack of ambition. They just wanted to do good work and didn't care about publications. There was a culture of looking down on those who publish. She recalls interactions with the club of influential physicists at Saha, and having confidence issues. She believes that publishing is important too, to tie up loose ends, communicate work to the outside. Being stubborn, she managed to get guidance, but some other students suffered. However, students adapted and supported each other through the gruelling 8-10 years. This culture slowly started changing.

(01:33:53) Experiences at summer/winter schools during PhD Maitreyee attended a winter school during the first year of PhD at Mahabaleshwar. She met many great structural physicists of the time. She recalls liking JD Garrett's talk. She recalls feeling a bit left out at first but later she made a lot of friends. She was disheartened when peers did not recognise her guide's name as they were not as well known as many other physicists at the time. She feels strongly she lost out on some opportunities because of her professors' attitudes, though they taught her well. She was agitated upon returning. She compares the prevalent perceptions of Saha students vs TIFR students. She also went to the DAE Symposium in Voltaire, BHU Summer school, and other summer schools.

(01:38:59) Deciding her topic of study She told her guide she wanted to work on nuclear structure inspired by J D Garrett's talk at the winter school. He advised her to approach A Ansari at Institute of Physics for help. She was particular that she wanted to do experimental work, but this was hard because Saha did not have an accelerator. Her guide and his group were ideal in many ways, especially since he could support her with electronics. She describes her team members. Her memories of the insights and difficulties of working with experimentalist Pratap Bhattacharya, of whom Maitreyee was in awe. She talks about an incident where she had to stand up to him. This time Maitreyee was insistent on publishing her work, even though today she feels they were not good quality papers.

[01:43:10 — 01:44:15 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in] [01:46:50 — 01:47:00 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in]

(01:48:29) Later years of PhD thesis She started phenomenological work, despite not being very fond of it and it delaying her thesis. She talks about the difficulties faced by her colleague whose guide had left Saha. She heard about a faculty position at Saha and she considered applying, but she was not eligible for the post. Finally her thesis was submitted in 1993, after nearly 8 years. After the thesis submission she married a person from the same institute.

[01:49:20 — 01:51:00 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in]

(01:51:56) Looking back & the perils of 'too much' independence She now encourages students to think of PhD just as a doorway. She talks about how her PhD journey went, the process of publishing, and the dwindling relationship with her guide. She recollects the pressure she felt during PhD when she was getting older and others were getting married.

[01:52:30 — 01:52:40 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in] [01:53:08 — 01:53:40 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in] [01:53:55 — 01:55:50 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in]

(01:55:51) Reflections and looking forward Her daughter and her PhD degree came around the same time and she also got a postdoc position at Saha. She considered going abroad but it was challenging to do so, today she feels she could have done it. It could have led her to meet more people, better people, and compete with the best. She wonders if it wasn't the best idea to stay at Saha for so long. Her advice to her daughter and students today is based on her own experiences and mistakes. She supports students without any insistence on co-authorship. Some reflections on the education system today. When she had fewer resources and money, she got more opportunities to interact with students.

(02:01:32) Nuclear astrophysics accelerator and deification of women leaders She rues that there has been no one to take over the laboratory, setups she started. She was the first to think about and take the lead on a nuclear astrophysics accelerator (FRENA) for the institute, but later she was not allowed to enter it due to various reasons. She summarises the hurdles that came up in the process and the work she put into this project. She also briefly discusses the deliberations that went into her becoming Head of the Department, and subsequent sidelining. Fate of the nuclear astrophysics accelerator.

[02:05:48 — 2:06:16 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in] [02:06:59 — 2:07:03 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in] [02:07:35 — 2:08:52 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in] [02:13:30 — 2.13:40 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in] [02:14:06 — 2:14:21 - Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in]